Jean-Marc Ziadé, Circular Transition Specialist

00:00:07: Hello, sustainability partners.

00:00:09: This is Lydia van der Broek here to share with you best practices around sustainability in hospitality and tourism And by sustainability I mean more than mere ecological sustainability which has thankfully moved into the center of our collective attention over the last few years.

00:00:28: If you want a run at truly sustainable operation you need to also assure economic sustainability, primarily through excellent guest service and human as well as social sustainability by training an empowering your staff.

00:00:44: And including the communities that you interact with.

00:00:48: how?

00:00:49: Well this is where I come in and i talk to real people in real businesses to hear about real solutions to real challenges.

00:00:59: So if you want to become more sustainable, I invite you listen into our conversations and pick out some of these gold nuggets that can hopefully be used in your own operations.

00:01:11: And as a side note every one my guests has offered themselves available for an in-depth conversation.

00:01:18: so by all means do reach out.

00:01:21: connect.

00:01:22: together we make hospitality & tourism more sustainable!

00:01:39: Hello friends and colleagues it's lovely to back with another take on sustainability in the field of hospitality.

00:01:45: This time, I got to talk to Jean-Marc Ziedé who is a veritable walking encyclopedia when it comes to all things circular.

00:01:54: To be specific he's a circular transition specialist among many other hats that he wears With his own consulting firm called Johnny shows you which i think such great name.

00:02:03: He has so many real-life, practicable ideas and suggestions.

00:02:07: And best practices on how to become circular in your operation no matter what level of maturity you're operation has!

00:02:15: So everybody take out your pen and listen closely because I promise you... ...you won't want miss any of them!

00:02:21: So enjoy this conversation!

00:02:50: Is that the right way to pronounce it?

00:02:51: Yes,

00:02:52: exactly.

00:02:52: I'll say the official good morning!

00:02:55: What

00:02:55: would be your native language if we start like this?

00:02:59: I am from Luxembourg but my native language is French and

00:03:04: here we are speaking in English.

00:03:06: thank you so much Jean-Marc, we had a little warm up conversation already.

00:03:10: So we are ready to jump into very interesting conversations.

00:03:14: I'm ready to learn and i hope everybody else who is listening as well.

00:03:19: Jean-marc ,i will have presented you in this podcast as specialist for circularity.

00:03:25: slash circular economy slash circular practices with specialization in hospitality industry.

00:03:33: did it get that right or if there's anything and a different way for you to present yourself.

00:03:39: Yes, thank you Lydia.

00:03:40: great!

00:03:40: Great to be here and also speak about one of my favorite subjects so circularity in the hotel industry.

00:03:48: yeah it's basically about avoiding waste.

00:03:50: how do we look at our resources when we looked at Hotel Industry?

00:03:54: It is actually very resource intensive industry today.

00:03:57: I'm not going to talk about how to manage your waste i am resources in general.

00:04:04: how do we actually take care of them?

00:04:06: How can you think differently, reduce our dependence to the resources.

00:04:11: So yeah it's going be also very concrete examples.

00:04:14: and hotel industry myself.

00:04:18: I did a hotel school in The Hague ten years ago now And i also worked in hospitality industry In a conference center where managed many events.

00:04:26: Then there are still so much waste happening in the industry.

00:04:30: We could still do more potential.

00:04:33: So I did a mass sustainability science in Maastricht, where i'm based right now in the Netherlands and also do research on what are the barriers but also to opportunities for entrepreneurs or hotels in the region that actually implement circularity.

00:04:48: so im gonna speak about input from the entrepreneurs into fields

00:04:52: you started out like regular hotel students as a graduate of a school starting your way into the hotel industry and then just having an epiphany of working in a conference center.

00:05:05: Is this what it was?

00:05:06: Or did you get inspired by...

00:05:08: Yeah, so I went to an event three years ago And uh- So i love food!

00:05:16: I think most people in most reality love food but not professional cook.

00:05:20: But I really loved how to see all the things happening in the industry, all that unperfect fruits.

00:05:26: Can we reuse them?

00:05:27: So there's zero waste.

00:05:28: thinking in that year twenty eighteen, nineteen, twenty-twenty... That was more about zero waste with motor concept at that time and I thought it is just that's really cool.

00:05:37: And then i went on an event a lot of sustainability in twenty three before saying my master and left the events very inspired tonight.

00:05:45: so I looked into the kitchen of wasted food and I thought how is that possible?

00:05:51: We just spoke about sustainability, i leave the event.

00:05:54: then there's a full bin only with uh food leftover.

00:05:57: So it was motivation to start my own business.

00:05:59: now um I'm an entrepreneur so full-time at working on on my own company and I'm doing some different things.

00:06:06: but good waste.

00:06:07: circular economy in general aspects one side consulting, so working with hotels on circular ideas.

00:06:16: So I could develop the circular quick scan and also help with your green key to Green Globe certifications.

00:06:20: there are some subsidies for circularity many of them now in the Netherlands or helping entrepreneurs through get those subsidies to get some ideas out in practice.

00:06:29: Actually, I like the practical part of it.

00:06:31: I'm helping with business development at Hotels for Trees as well and also working on other different projects.

00:06:37: but now that's too much to speak about...I am also organizing workshops on circular business model innovation, on a circular economy collage and mostly one on climate change.

00:06:46: And i really like chocolate!

00:06:47: I've also certified chocolate sommelier which is a small spot for the fact about me.

00:06:53: That's in short.

00:06:54: Sustainable chocolate, especially?

00:06:56: Sustainable,

00:06:57: yes it has been too far.

00:06:58: Let

00:06:58: see which ones of all these topics we can focus on this conversation.

00:07:03: So let start like every good conversation with the definition Of the terms were going to use.

00:07:09: so hit us With your best definition.

00:07:13: What do you mean by circularity?

00:07:14: slash circular economy or circular practices?

00:07:17: Few definitions.

00:07:18: In a circular economy we want to regenerate value.

00:07:22: So it's not about so generate value,

00:07:25: okay?

00:07:25: Regenerative

00:07:26: values are something that you want to create value of what there is already.

00:07:30: Okay You may be have heard off the Earth Overshoot Day.

00:07:33: Yes

00:07:34: Yeah yeah!

00:07:34: The moment when we're using all resources.

00:07:36: so basically earth don't have enough time to replenish itself.

00:07:40: We dont' have enough resources on a planet which means more efficient and more intelligent in the exportation to use non renewable energy.

00:07:49: So yeah, so the user of non-renewable energy and waste is actually avoided.

00:07:53: you want to avoid waste but also in a first place one to avoid virgin materials.

00:07:58: You extend the lifespan of products that matters instead of ten years and throwing it away maybe can use its sixty years?

00:08:04: We won't do things again like car cars used for ninety five percent off their time.

00:08:08: It's standing still.

00:08:09: Can we not have a car sharing and then at the car is used by more people More Time And Its Not Standing Still?

00:08:15: And then you want to also have different strategies like the R ladder.

00:08:19: We think reduce, refuse, remanufacture refurbish recycle et cetera.

00:08:27: and it's looking at a whole value chain.

00:08:30: so what happens very often is that create something, sell it and throw away.

00:08:35: if we look into all value chains for example now for clothes there are companies who say come back with your clothes will fix them again.

00:08:43: So there's new business models being created in terms of circular economy.

00:08:48: And obviously everything is to work for the next generation, so if now we're using too many resources that means at a next-generation will not have enough.

00:08:56: We seem to be not overly concerned—at least most of us consumers right about what we are going to leave for the Next Generation?

00:09:04: Okay!

00:09:05: It all makes a lot sense.

00:09:08: Why are we not doing more of it?

00:09:10: why is this not to wire.

00:09:12: We're not seeing an avalanche off circular practices in everyday life, what does your experience in general?

00:09:19: and then will focus on the hospitality industry?

00:09:21: yes yeah so um In terms of circularity there one other thing Is that sustainability.

00:09:29: It's already known since many years.

00:09:31: So many people are really working with insularities One over tools one type of tool that you can use in terms of sustainability.

00:09:39: But, there are many tools and transitions like the energy transition, there is biodiversity transition, the circular transition... There were many different transitions happening within the sustainability field but when we look at the SDGs, the Sustainable Development Goals have seventeen of them and circularity number twelve.

00:09:57: so it's about responsible consumption and production.

00:10:03: so it's only one out of seventeen and only within days.

00:10:07: the results you are gonna look at.

00:10:09: okay how or managing to resources but i think that hospitality is also very uh people oriented and it's end-to-end.

00:10:17: um security is a very often seen in terms off material flows.

00:10:22: When hospitalities talk about the people under your engagement with people how do reduce your dependence on resources?

00:10:27: water energy building food materials, mobility, right?

00:10:32: Those are a bit in general things.

00:10:33: And the financial aspect.

00:10:36: buying virgin plastic is still cheaper nowadays than to buy recycled plastic.

00:10:41: there is regulations The governments and rules.

00:10:43: they want circular economy but it's still not happening as quick as possible.

00:10:48: customer acceptance It's not clear yet.

00:10:50: businesses are saying yeah But we do what our customers wants.

00:10:54: We're waiting for government To Do Things.

00:10:56: Government Is Saying We are elected by the people and we're following what entrepreneurs want to do to stimulate them.

00:11:04: Yeah, but it's too expensive to buy a circular product.

00:11:08: and he said yeah.

00:11:09: But the government should change things et cetera.

00:11:11: so everyone is giving each other.

00:11:13: It's pointy thing.

00:11:13: There are

00:11:13: two circularities of excuses right?

00:11:16: And of shifting their responsibility and blame if you will write.

00:11:21: Yeah and circularity.

00:11:23: So we have circular practices.

00:11:24: how can I change this to make it circular right?

00:11:27: those are easy things low hanging fruits.

00:11:29: although circularity its about collaboration And that's what I believe in collaboration triple helix.

00:11:35: So you have the government, two businesses and educational fields or the academic field so to say.

00:11:42: those three are working together.

00:11:43: then you can achieve a secure economy way quicker.

00:11:47: all makes total and complete sense.

00:11:49: zone.

00:11:50: let see what we can do in the hospitality industry.

00:11:53: Let's get into the practical aspects of it.

00:11:56: We start with

00:11:57: art.

00:11:58: Sure,

00:11:59: yeah.

00:11:59: Okay so we are in the hospitality industry.

00:12:03: it sounds like a big concept maybe too far away or to vague or two.

00:12:09: well i'm not building my hotel from scratch may be.

00:12:11: I am just connecting circularity with reusing the bricks of building and buildings so that we can reuse them.

00:12:19: building materials might even understand our have knowledge off How else we could possibly be circular?

00:12:26: So this is the time.

00:12:29: Hit me with all of practical examples and start with low-hanging fruits, they easier to implement better please.

00:12:39: Yeah.

00:12:39: so indeed building it's something that you were speaking about That a very good point.

00:12:44: basically nowadays We are destroying buildings And bringing new materials in then just building things.

00:12:50: The question how can you repurpose empty buildings?

00:12:53: And also, when you have a renovation how can we reuse everything that we are destroying?

00:12:56: So there the cradle to cradle is obviously one of the most famous examples of certification in terms and in terms of projects.

00:13:03: But for example In Citter There's hotel That Is Now Combining Different elements different business within a hotel.

00:13:12: so they have hotels.

00:13:13: when you enter, don't see a lobby.

00:13:15: The lobby is on the first floor and I have climbing wall and gym.

00:13:18: behind it has huge court where people play football and shop in swimming pool and bowling.

00:13:24: there are many activities happening inside of building.

00:13:27: before your hotel was this stand-alone building with this lobby rooms etc.

00:13:33: but maybe When we repurpose thing and we think more in collaborations, then this one building is not only for a hotel but it's collaboration between fit.

00:13:42: Then of course you could think about the roofs.

00:13:44: so many roofs are still empty or underused.

00:13:47: can we use those roofs?

00:13:48: Not only for cell panels but also for biodiversity For example.

00:13:51: what do I have is mobility.

00:13:53: when we speak about mobility we're speaking about suppliers.

00:13:58: We were talking about guests And employees.

00:14:02: So most of the time people are just narrowing down into, maybe to guests but there's so much more where we can actually change things.

00:14:10: When you speak about circularity... Can we not bundle and work together with other hotels?

00:14:14: To deliver in the same time?

00:14:16: In Maastricht There is a famous street full of hospitality restaurants And they're saying okay We're delivering all-together twice a week and we are bundling all our deliveries, we buy from the same wholesaler.

00:14:30: And instead of coming every day with a different truck for a different company they're just bundling it into two deliveries per week with ten restaurants in the same street.

00:14:38: so that's working smartly.

00:14:40: Obviously if you bundle deliveries your saving costs because then one track doesn't need to have an efficient route only.

00:14:47: but this is going to say okay all these four all that streets will be putting together and we're dividing their cost off delivery between.

00:14:56: Okay, so that but that sounds to me like synergy.

00:14:59: Like thinking outside the box doing new concepts multi use of a place like in hotel which is you know?

00:15:07: You could probably put this as a marketing concept.

00:15:11: well right and it's way off reducing energy, reducing resources right?

00:15:19: We're using the need for resources.

00:15:24: Okay so what are you saying?

00:15:25: it starts with a concept of if I'm a standalone hotel though i know your one of your topics is food waste reduction.

00:15:36: could start giving us some examples around that perhaps once I'm in a hotel let's say I don't know.

00:15:44: My hands are tight or i'm doing something already around shared resources with others, which is a paradigm change because we would go out of being in complete competition with another hotel on the street.

00:16:00: Paradigm

00:16:01: changed towards a win-win for the area and everybody involved by reducing the cost of the resource that were using.

00:16:08: Let's say they got settled to take care off some things going along.

00:16:13: What can I do inside a hotel?

00:16:16: Really, as far as very practical aspects of me reducing waste going circular.

00:16:25: What happens often is that we are looking at the waist and then saying okay what should be done with it?

00:16:30: but actually starts in the beginning.

00:16:32: Where are we buying our products?

00:16:33: Are you buying them locally or buying them circular in the first place, nudging guests.

00:16:41: They're a typical example of having smaller plates on the buffet so that's... people take less on their plates about having products that stay longer.

00:16:48: For example, those are underbuffet fresh products or on the menu just above to the menu.

00:16:53: how do you design a menu?

00:16:54: What other things sell?

00:16:55: well sometimes people say yeah but no one is taking our vegan options so we're not putting it in the menu.

00:17:00: if you don't put any vegan option then your guests won't come because they think okay I'm gonna go there.

00:17:06: for example guests doing deliveries inside hotels with being thrown upon But when you realize, hey what are they actually delivering?

00:17:14: You could be like Hey can we not use that in our hotel and also offer that option for the guests staying in their hotel rooms.

00:17:23: So...

00:17:23: Are you saying delivery is a better option than what?

00:17:27: No I'm just saying it's Delivery in hotels is frowned upon so people aren't really happy when hotel guests make deliveries of let say pizza but at same time there isn't an alternative or menu is made to offer something interesting for people who want to eat after ten

00:17:44: p.m.,

00:17:44: let's say...

00:17:44: Okay, okay!

00:17:45: So

00:17:46: sometimes you can think about how is the guest behavior?

00:17:49: How is my menu looking at what is staying in the plates?

00:17:52: For example In Venlo there is a hotel that has smaller portions.

00:17:58: That's also very smart because then your offering option of small portion and big portion You're not eating whole portion.

00:18:04: Why would take a big portion And leave rest on your plate?

00:18:08: For example, there's another hotel a message that saying okay.

00:18:10: We saw lot of waste off our price because we're giving them standard with without replace.

00:18:15: then they were seeing Okay?

00:18:16: Which is gonna reduce the price a bit when I'm going to offer the president and give it as an extra.

00:18:20: if someone really want some price They can just pay you a little bit extra in the get-it on this site.

00:18:25: You know.

00:18:26: So using the tool called Orbusk, do no or bisque No.

00:18:29: so almost or window are their different tools under markets where basically You have a machine and then all the foods that is being wasted you bring it to this machine.

00:18:39: It takes a picture, underneath the machine there's a bin.

00:18:43: Compostbin.

00:18:47: So what happens?

00:18:48: This machine is actually scanning all of the food being wasted And an AI behind us is analyzing them and making some reports out.

00:18:56: sixty percent of your food is bread, thirty percent.

00:19:01: Ten percent are vegetables and ten percent fish.

00:19:06: so you're making pictures of everything that's being wasted but actually getting data on.

00:19:12: how can we improve the food waste?

00:19:14: It's

00:19:15: not just about composting it's paying attention to what you're composting.

00:19:22: And how much per person?

00:19:23: I see some hotels have a food waste per person on the hundred to one hundred thirty grams, which is relatively high.

00:19:29: Some that are lower under thirty forty grams per person.

00:19:31: so you're saying for forty grams percent has been wasted in our hotel.

00:19:37: most of the data it's now coming from breakfast.

00:19:39: because where do we see them?

00:19:41: mostly yeah but not only the buffet itself going from the plate and those coming from kitchen preparations right.

00:19:47: so we think sometimes say yeah the buffets are bad.

00:19:52: Yeah, buffet can also be good because then you kind of larger portion.

00:19:54: You could maybe reuse it in different areas.

00:19:56: right if your have a monoportions obviously not plastic but sometimes more portions or you just choose as much as he wants instead having a yogurt pot and only want half of it.

00:20:07: so that's always an interesting way to do the waste.

00:20:15: Obviously because with the Orbisk, it's also on a scale.

00:20:18: And then this scale is actually going to tell you okay today You wasted so much kilo of food and when you think that every kilo or food It says three euros?

00:20:26: They're basically saying I'm wasting hundred kilos.

00:20:30: So today i wasted three hundred kilo worth Of food.

00:20:33: but then you can be like yeah How can we actually reduce them?

00:20:35: Because if your thinking financial perspective which Is for many hotels yes its very interesting do want To say no food waste means I am saving money

00:20:43: Right.

00:20:44: If you save three hundred euros in terms of food waste, that's amazing because I don't think any chef says i'm a chef and want to waste foods.

00:20:54: Whatever right said no chef ever.

00:20:58: Yeah, well I mean there used to be a time when we just didn't pay attention to it.

00:21:01: It wasn't an issue right?

00:21:03: But in days where everything is getting more and more expensive... ...and all of us are watching our expenses you'd think that this was something people would go first.

00:21:15: but no!

00:21:15: You know what they're cutting out off?

00:21:16: Training & Development Right?

00:21:20: It's about

00:21:20: good ways.

00:21:21: That's the way things start.

00:21:23: Let's get them convinced that training is a good thing to invest waste is a good thing to save on.

00:21:30: Also training on the kitchen staff, because most of the time people are trained to prepare dishes but they're not trained to do things with waste.

00:21:38: so when things come back from the buffet you can also think hey Khan how can we use this?

00:21:41: How can we make... Most of the people do soup and croutons.

00:21:44: that's like the basics that everyone knows about!

00:21:46: But can I pickle stuff?

00:21:47: Can i reuse them into different dishes?

00:21:49: Can it create the menu of today based off don't call it waste by way something.

00:21:52: you can call it upcycled.

00:21:53: So your upcycle things You can cross use things.

00:21:58: So for example, when you have meetings and events also of the time people say oh that's a menu are going to get then they serve their food in any further way or do give it to this stuff?

00:22:06: That's the traditional way.

00:22:08: but why cannot tell to the people hey let us know in advance how much we want to eat And were gonna prepare those sandwiches in advance obviously always prepared one or two sandwiches extra.

00:22:17: But Then In The First Place You Can Already Know Okay This Group It Made Out Of so much female, male.

00:22:24: They want so much food to prepare a little bit extra.

00:22:27: and you see actually I can reduce the food waste since the beginning and not only in the end.

00:22:31: And then afterwards once the event is done You Can Actually Write Down How Much Food Is Still There?

00:22:36: You Can Give It To The Meetings & Events Coordinator And That Person Can Write it Down.

00:22:40: So When A Group Comes Back they Can Already Know Oh there Was A Lot Of Food Last Time Or We Should Maybe Plan More Food For That Group Because we Didn't Have Enough collaborate and be like, Hey okay.

00:22:53: This group wants so much food or so less food?

00:22:55: And they asked in advance.

00:22:56: So that's how much we do waste.

00:22:58: We avoid it just by asking the people How much foods you want.

00:23:01: Or for example also coffee You would drink.

00:23:05: a coffee travels kilometers and kilometers.

00:23:08: It is coming from places where sometimes The farmers are not well paid.

00:23:15: It requires lot of water to produce.

00:23:17: you put it in a machine, three seconds.

00:23:19: You serve the coffee and drink for two or three minutes then throw away your coffee.

00:23:25: But what some hotels are doing is to create oyster mushrooms with it so that the coffee drops into the ground.

00:23:34: The used

00:23:35: coffee grinds yeah?

00:23:37: Yeah!

00:23:37: Used coffee can actually be used to make oyster mushroom.

00:23:40: And oyster mushrooms again... So there is in the Netherlands, they are many companies doing that.

00:23:48: They're picking up coffee and putting them into a closed space or cave where humidity has no daylight.

00:24:02: with some materials.

00:24:04: it's just mushrooms growing out of that from this.

00:24:08: actually very good to meet alternative And so you can use it again in your kitchen.

00:24:13: So then they are becoming circular, just saying hey I have a waste from my coffee and at the same time producing something out of that.

00:24:21: this produce is going to be taken into mind when we're selling some croquettes or some vegan meat?

00:24:27: Incredible!

00:24:27: I've never heard

00:24:31: about that.

00:24:31: See if we have that in Austria as well.

00:24:33: I don't want to sell coffee too, then I think it would be counterfeit

00:24:37: again!

00:24:39: But you also have boxes for home.

00:24:41: so... If your at-home and wanna test them there's this box.

00:24:44: they give you something i dont remember how its called Something with an M That says specific products And then you have just in the earth and a bucket.

00:24:52: You can start at home, put your coffee every day...

00:24:56: I mean i use it for my roses but if i eat that's even better!

00:25:04: Fixed into mushrooms.

00:25:05: wow okay from a circular

00:25:10: perspective.

00:25:10: there is also in south of Lindbergh.

00:25:13: here there is Gülpener which isn't the most sustainable brewery.

00:25:16: Say

00:25:17: that again, what's the name?

00:25:19: Gulpner.

00:25:20: Okay I'll put it in a show notes here.

00:25:24: Or Sculpener as local call it here and so Gulpener also is producing beer and they're helping them out.

00:25:31: when its being brewed It actually been thrown away which is a shame.

00:25:34: So then they thought okay What can we do with this?

00:25:36: They are working on their forty mile principle.

00:25:38: They doing alot of biodiversity conversation.

00:25:40: Wait wait stop!

00:25:41: Forty Mile Principle.

00:25:43: Please double click on that before you continue.

00:25:46: Yeah So, Fortima principle is basically how can I bring most of my products from a range of fifty kilometers around my company?

00:25:54: How can i source everything from fifty kilometers.

00:25:57: Okay, arbitrary

00:25:58: number or are there any other numbers?

00:26:01: you're just saying fifty kilometers.

00:26:02: it's just

00:26:04: it's called.

00:26:05: yeah we call this fortima principles.

00:26:08: some say hundred is still local to one.

00:26:10: hundred is the local product that depends in the Netherlands a lot of things within fifty kilometers because it's the country that produces a lot.

00:26:18: Obviously if you are in larger countries, everything is within two hundred kilometers and it's considered regional products.

00:26:25: Okay so interesting use your regional product okay okay.

00:26:31: But also not only regional products but also products that used to be produced in the region as well!

00:26:38: So now there isn't much about mass production or selling to bigger companies Whereas there is a lot of old grains that are not being produced anymore, because there's no demand for it.

00:26:52: So they're now some local farmers to regenerate the idea behind agriculture.

00:27:01: so much historical food has been produced and we don't have it.

00:27:05: but if people would be uh willing to take those products for sure.

00:27:10: For example, to make beer or bread then we're gonna produce it and the farmers are well paid.

00:27:14: there is a direct chain so the farmers directly can sell the grains

00:27:18: through

00:27:18: that company okay?

00:27:21: And so Gulpner's doing this they are looking locally who all of our farmers support.

00:27:25: how do you buy from them directly and how can we brew beer from these.

00:27:30: What has been thrown away?

00:27:31: what happens with hope in the market up in the mall.

00:27:36: What happens to that?

00:27:37: Yeah, then it's being thrown away usually but you can actually reuse it and make bread out of this

00:27:43: leftover from beer.

00:27:44: yes

00:27:46: yeah okay I think i've heard something like that.

00:27:48: yeah.

00:27:49: And so in Maastricht there is a Bischofsmolen.

00:27:51: So they have one type of bret which was made by the leftovers of the beer of Gopener.

00:27:57: Okay

00:28:01: exactly!

00:28:02: They even thought Can we make beer out of bread out of wasted bread?

00:28:05: and actually

00:28:06: I did hear about that.

00:28:07: Yeah, yeah.

00:28:08: so

00:28:09: you see it's been circular because the waste of someone becomes a resource for someone else?

00:28:13: And right now we are still thinking oh i have this waste i'm throwing away...i gave it to animal feeds but animals don't..I mean we shouldn't feed animals should feed humans.

00:28:22: right

00:28:23: okay all right alright!

00:28:26: So I can say you're really into the food waste reduction.

00:28:31: just to recap what do Really that what it takes is number one the awareness and number two.

00:28:39: It really just, I'm putting this into little whatever you call them?

00:28:53: be planning better, right?

00:28:55: To do to be more aware of what's coming in.

00:28:58: What's going out?

00:28:59: plan better have a weekly plan so that you can take into consideration what your upcycling from a buffet for my function and so forth.

00:29:10: Right is it the callout that you're making two to the staff management?

00:29:15: It's more complex than that.

00:29:17: try too.

00:29:19: when we go ahead You make it more complex again.

00:29:22: I always make

00:29:23: it more complicated.

00:29:24: Planning is not the only thing, although if you can avoid waste in a first place that's always good!

00:29:31: Okay?

00:29:31: Obviously... The barriers when it comes to implementing circularity in hotels are also organisational.

00:29:40: so they're four barriers.

00:29:41: one is knowledge and data.

00:29:43: second is organisational.

00:29:45: third of all is rules regulation and government.

00:29:48: and fourth is demand and supply.

00:29:50: go one by One, what we can actually see that institutional.

00:29:55: how are the rules?

00:29:56: Can We Actually use waste is a lot of countries where it's just a legal problem.

00:30:00: You cannot really you cannot even donate waste right

00:30:03: Right.

00:30:03: in France It's a rule That you have to donate your Waste.

00:30:07: In Italy Is The Opposite.

00:30:09: So Yeah Too Many Stricts Regulations

00:30:12: But Some Countries are Turning Right.

00:30:13: so I know i've Seen some Regulations.

00:30:18: Institutional and regulation is one point.

00:30:22: the other one is.

00:30:24: Organizational one.

00:30:25: sometimes management is on board saying we are sustainable way doing a lot but we're struggling to get people onboard.

00:30:30: how do i see that more often?

00:30:32: That people are not aware of what's happening or they are where but you know acting upon it.

00:30:37: sometimes even the opposite employees have so many ideas about the management is not on board.

00:30:41: actually change into be like no, It costs us too much or it can be cost saving.

00:30:46: No, no we don't have time etc.

00:30:50: The third thing is the market demand.

00:30:52: so you have circular procurement and you have a customer acceptance on one side want to make your customers happy.

00:30:57: some people say that we are as circular possible but do not touch guests experience.

00:31:02: maybe you need to nudge.

00:31:04: guest also join their initiatives right?

00:31:07: On other hand what are the procurements from refurbished materials, what can you buy?

00:31:15: What can we manufacture.

00:31:16: Can you buy that stays longer?

00:31:18: so maybe it's interesting to pay a hundred euro more but have a product that says for sixty years instead of twenty years right on the long term is still going be interesting or two.

00:31:25: and by things as a service in sort of buying an incident I'm buying a project and then throwing away.

00:31:33: important one is also knowledge data.

00:31:36: sometimes people don't have data And it's great, but actually in terms of data they don't know what is happening or people have enough knowledge to understand what a circular economy means.

00:31:46: I did the major one year and even then i'm only at the top of the iceberg to understand.

00:31:53: also sustainability journey and circular economies are only one tool.

00:31:59: so someone who is busy with their operation doesn't have time.

00:32:03: thing about sustainability, so of course they are green key criteria.

00:32:06: Yes there is a green glow critters eco certifications you know but even their circularity.

00:32:11: it's too small and to limited waste only or waste management where this much more than one can achieve?

00:32:16: So that what makes in more complex?

00:32:19: I'm trying to get to when we start right.

00:32:22: What is an easy way To?

00:32:26: starts with Circular activities, circular processes.

00:32:31: It starts with the mindset.

00:32:32: it starts with sitting down.

00:32:37: it's not just for the planet.

00:32:41: It is also good for the economic situation of a hotel, right?

00:32:46: And then if you start with that mindset and get people on board... You do things like starting planning or better planning to find out what other ideas they might have around reducing waste, initiating certain activities.

00:33:04: Right.

00:33:05: Just having an idea box for employees, how can we become more sustainable?

00:33:10: You you can get a lot of insights and have training on people.

00:33:13: what does the whole system look like?

00:33:16: I'm organizing those workshops and then through different cards, you know.

00:33:20: And people need to with collective intelligence.

00:33:23: it's not only on the creating awareness but also understand.

00:33:26: how does our whole system look like?

00:33:27: what can we actually do in terms of a linear system looks like other circle?

00:33:31: is this system look right?

00:33:32: What can be actually do?

00:33:33: so i am using the value here today.

00:33:36: Also not only when us but also thinking okay why can't she prevent even asking guests?

00:33:40: sometimes guest are not ask me.

00:33:43: So I'm not asking guests, how can we become more sustainable?

00:33:48: And that'll get them to it.

00:33:49: That will be kind of a nudge right... ...to get into the frame-of-mind.

00:33:54: Now you brought some other examples like renting a service instead of buying.

00:33:58: Do you have some examples Bruce on there?

00:34:00: Yeah many!

00:34:02: You hit us with a few.

00:34:05: There is Snow World in The Netherlands.

00:34:07: They are indoor ski resorts and they said okay Can we actually, instead of buying all our skis new and renting it to people can you not have second hand skis as well?

00:34:19: indoor, can we not?

00:34:20: So if people come with their own ski that is something breaks.

00:34:23: If they want to renovate this ski and cannot also do that.

00:34:26: so there are now thinking of adding a business model into the instead of just selling skis And then it didn't work.

00:34:32: They throw in away or they break down Or they recycle later actually thinking okay Can you get secondhand ski?

00:34:37: We maintain them longer?

00:34:38: Can we repair them again?

00:34:39: We reuse them somehow.

00:34:40: so I think a circular business model to your current business model Okay.

00:34:47: Then there's also, for example, judging the guests at The Social Hub.

00:34:53: they have this small tool in the shower where you can measure water usage and there is a small ice bear on top of an iceberg.

00:35:03: The longer you take your shower, the more water that you use.

00:35:07: Oh no!

00:35:08: That's

00:35:09: terrible!

00:35:11: And then the Ice Bear is actually floating into the water... Oh no, it's

00:35:13: terrible!!!

00:35:14: ...and if you use so much water than there isn't any ice anymore.

00:35:20: I have a vision of my kids in the shower, i don't know why.

00:35:25: Imagine

00:35:25: you're taking a shower and then see this small ice beard there going like floating into water knowing

00:35:33: how much time my kid spent in the show.

00:35:35: that would be terrible for them.

00:35:37: okay very good do you have to private households too?

00:35:40: Have you seen this anywhere?

00:35:42: That'd really helpful if we had teenage kids.

00:35:45: now.

00:35:46: Okay, okay.

00:35:49: What other hotels are doing is at your code with a song and then they're saying for the length of this song you can take power on it exactly.

00:35:58: yeah that's already more common

00:36:01: water.

00:36:02: what is a thing?

00:36:03: I've heard about hotels who reusing or reusing the greywater right for irrigation of the gardens something like Yeah, yeah.

00:36:15: And

00:36:15: then coming back to the renting services instead of buying what examples do you have for that?

00:36:21: So renting Services.

00:36:23: there is a company in Switzerland it's called.

00:36:27: I think Swiss Feel and Swiss feel they are working quite circular.

00:36:34: Of course There was also Alping and their more companies working on that.

00:36:38: They're saying we're not going use Virgin products We gonna use recycled mattresses.

00:36:42: Then make new mattresses from this thing is that you can also pay for use instead of bang the whole thing.

00:36:49: So what happens if I do leave ownership at a company?

00:36:52: Maybe we have heard about bicycles or with cars, it's very common but when you cannot do it was mattresses.

00:36:59: so for example you can say okay to ownership off.

00:37:02: the mattress stays at your company which is renting out since paying the full fee of a match of thousand euros actually paying a small free and you're playing in per month.

00:37:11: And so then if something happens, they can clean the mattress.

00:37:15: They can fix it and repair it or even use for insulation within homes.

00:37:22: Then again send new mattresses which are made from recycled mattresses So you could pay per use.

00:37:32: This is one of the examples but also, of course, the bikes at hotels.

00:37:35: that has already existed since many years.

00:37:38: There's this circular thinking right?

00:37:41: Sometimes you don't have to reinvent a wheel.

00:37:43: Well, I see.

00:37:43: I cannot get all the information out in one podcast as much as they would like to.

00:37:49: but that's okay because you are offering your services right and this is what... This is your business model right?

00:37:55: To teach people, to inform people ,to educate people in the hospitality industry and beyond And help them specifically In their very own operation.

00:38:06: become circular Circular.

00:38:12: so i'm going to urge everybody to reach out the show mark invite him over and have him give you what do you call it a circular.

00:38:21: Yes yes

00:38:22: yeah circular stand

00:38:24: yeah,

00:38:25: I guess if you start with the low hanging fruits is that something easy and you see which can actually go out of there?

00:38:33: then its fun right and then people engage and that can really make the whole circular idea take off.

00:38:45: Start with something, get everybody excited about it.

00:38:48: then see what takes you a little bit of expertise from outside because we don't have to reinvent wheel.

00:38:56: but remember somebody else has invented what to do about it, right?

00:38:59: What you look for?

00:39:00: answers.

00:39:02: Yeah

00:39:05: exactly so and And but I usually gave as a guideline is that yeah You have energy of water building mobility your food any materials Right in the hotels that have Equal certifications.

00:39:19: they're really working on certain stuff.

00:39:20: when we think about circular economy We will broader.

00:39:24: Okay, my orange peel for the fresh orange juice in the morning.

00:39:28: Can we make soap out of that?

00:39:30: That's possible.

00:39:31: and there is a company selling soaps made out of leftover peels you know.

00:39:36: And also thinking... When

00:39:36: they're collecting You could collect the orange from an orange juice machine Exactly The morning They collected it and then send them as well.

00:39:44: Then they make soap Out-of-it.

00:39:46: Also some cleaning liquids right because A lot of them have orange Canning

00:39:50: liquids.

00:39:51: Yeah

00:39:52: Okay yeah if you know, and don't do it.

00:39:56: Well then that's a different story right?

00:39:59: But well we need to start by knowing now before I let you go.

00:40:04: is there like back of the napkin calculation You can share with us To just make showcase how actually save money?

00:40:16: Because I suppose this is the biggest thing that people come back to you, say we don't have time for it.

00:40:20: We're going through resources for that and then after time for them when they have their money for it right?

00:40:24: It costs money.

00:40:27: Is there a very quick calculation?

00:40:30: just give us an example of how circular practice can actually save our tell money.

00:40:38: There are many.

00:40:40: Let me take A few simple one what is for example the made blue foundation?

00:40:44: They are not serving bottled water, they're saving tapwater.

00:40:48: So actually you are saving some money and also donating again to certain projects that their building water fountains in third world countries.

00:40:58: There is Hotels for Trees which your last podcast presented it.

00:41:02: so maybe cleaning the room if a guest stays more than two nights cleaning the room costs ten euros, planting in trees cost five euros while you're saving five euros right away.

00:41:11: And changing their mentality that we don't need to clean the room every day Right?

00:41:15: So uh so your-your savings and from those savings even giving something back to nature also.

00:41:21: many people need to pay per-need to pay for their waste.

00:41:25: so then the more waste you have the more you need to paid.

00:41:27: so at least ways yeah Atleast you have to pay like a food waste example can you not pick up stuff, cannot reuse them?

00:41:33: Can we not compost it.

00:41:34: Can do certain things with it?

00:41:37: and also furniture.

00:41:38: if you have a furniture that stays for five ten years And is of lower quality and then need to throw the weight into buy new furniture should by furniture That this model in that he can repair very easily your furniture can stay for thirty years.

00:41:50: nowadays You can even Have A usage as a service.

00:41:53: you can Also have kitchen.

00:41:54: kitchen has a surface so you don't Buy The Kitchen you install It For Twenty Thousand Then You Throwed Away After Twenty Years.

00:41:59: It Actually Stays For Sixty Years And you pay actually less because the ownership stays at a company.

00:42:07: Or for example, flowers or cats.

00:42:09: orchids can bloom up to five times after the first time.

00:42:12: it's usually being thrown away.

00:42:14: well if we don't need to buy five times an orchid is because every time its blooming again but she just needs to maintain it better and know how an orchid.

00:42:25: You buy less orchids, you know?

00:42:28: And also forgotten fruits or vegetables right I mean there's so many fruits and vegetables that are not any more known.

00:42:33: we just buy the typical things but they're so.

00:42:35: many other fruits can be used.

00:42:38: maybe they aren't popular because it may have been thrown away being given to... They don' t use for human consumption.

00:42:50: deliver those products as well to the restaurant and they can make something out of it, then good meals.

00:42:55: Well I think i've extracted everything out of you that you can squeeze into one podcast.

00:43:00: there is just no way around hiring you for a consultation because I can see like so many follow-up questions would make complete sense... I could speak

00:43:10: for hours still!

00:43:12: And you do right?

00:43:13: That's a great thing

00:43:14: right?!

00:43:16: So much more than walking encyclopedia of circular practices that can be put to use in the quick, and then look at it.

00:43:26: In the midterm long term depending on just how far you want to go I really appreciate this has been such a learning experience.

00:43:34: Thank You so much for giving me an executive summary over couple things i'm definitely going to use into Look Into The Coffee Grains coffee grain, oyster mushrooms.

00:43:46: So this is what I'm going to take away from my very own household here.

00:43:49: so Jean-Marc it's been an absolute delight and absolute pleasure talking to you.

00:43:53: i know i could just i'm just gonna invite you back in some time uh and see um what other experiences you've made and maybe find some more examples that people can just put to use hopefully right away.

00:44:07: Thank you so much for the time that you've been there.

00:44:10: I hope it will have a sustainable effect out there in the market, thank you very

00:44:16: much.

00:44:18: Thanks and lots

00:44:19: of success with your activities!