Bart Schutz, Tourism Manager, Wilder Places / Rewilding Europe

00:00:07: Hello, sustainability partners.

00:00:09: This is Lydia van der Broek here to share with you best practices around sustainability in hospitality and tourism And by sustainability I mean more than mere ecological sustainability which has thankfully moved into the center of our collective attention over the last few years.

00:00:26: If you want a run at surely sustainable operation You need also assure economic sustainability primarily through excellent guest service and human as well as social sustainability by training an empowering new staff, including the communities that you interact with.

00:00:43: How?

00:00:44: Well this is where I come in!

00:00:46: And talk to real people –in real businesses–to hear about real solutions to challenges…and share these learnings with you.

00:00:54: So if want become more sustainable I invite you to listen into our conversations and pick out some of these gold nuggets that you can hopefully use in your own operations.

00:01:04: And as a side note, every one of my guests has offered to make themselves available for more in-depth conversation.

00:01:10: so by all means do reach out connect and together we can make hospitality & tourism more sustainable!

00:01:27: Hello colleagues and friends of sustainability it's Lydia here again.

00:01:30: todays guest takes us pun intended two wilder places.

00:01:34: Let me tell you how we got there.

00:01:36: In hospitality, We talk a lot about sustainability.

00:01:39: This is what this podcast is all about!

00:01:40: We're talking about sourcing locally reducing waste building with less and All those things matter And I will keep on looking for best practices wherever i go.

00:01:49: Yet There's a version of sustainability that goes further.

00:01:52: That doesn't just ask How do we do less harm?

00:01:54: But What if our presence here actively made Things better Better for everyone For the land For The wildlife And better for the communities To live alongside both?

00:02:03: The topic I'm talking about is Rewilding, a topic that has mesmerized me for quite awhile.

00:02:08: So true to the original mission of this podcast i set out to learn more about it and have been lucky enough That today's guest has so generously agreed To share his wisdom an experience with Me And now With you.

00:02:19: Bart Schultz is manager Of wilderplaces.com Europe's new rewilding tourism marketplace which in turn Is powered by Rewiring Europe A huge initiative to make europe wild again if You will.

00:02:31: So while the place is a platform, it connects travellers with experiences and landscapes where nature really comes back.

00:02:38: We're going to talk about what that means for hospitality, guests or guides who are on the front line of it all – maybe even you!

00:02:46: Welcome to this very special episode.

00:02:48: Enjoy & Learn!

00:03:02: It's

00:03:03: like four generations ago, man.

00:03:09: Oh okay and it was my Dutch so

00:03:12: we

00:03:12: crossed borders at one point!

00:03:13: Yeah

00:03:13: good yeah...

00:03:15: It is lovely to have you.

00:03:16: thank you so much for taking the time uh to talk to us knowing that you're practically hours away from jumping on a plane to go even wilder places.

00:03:26: So Bart, we're jumping right in.

00:03:28: You know the reason... The main reason why I reached out to you is because i just love the concept of rewilding and love the concepts of wider places not only because it's a lovely idea but really has hope for the future for hospitality industry as a whole.

00:03:52: It will move away from being very niche relatively speaking product to something that we can all learn something from, which is the reason why I really wanted to explore your thoughts on.

00:04:02: That i'm going hand it over to you right now barred as long as hopefully will have spoken in one without catching a breath.

00:04:09: so what do you part?

00:04:10: please explain as an intro what drew while with the world wilding initiative and then in connection

00:04:19: You're saying rewilding is a hopeful message as exactly what also resonated with me personally and With a lot of people all over the globe because rewiling it's really gaining momentum on a global scale currently.

00:04:32: So I work within Rewilding Europe, which is obviously The Rewiring NGO for Europe.

00:04:38: And Rewyling itself is a progressive way to approach nature.

00:04:43: We look at Nature something that can take hold.

00:04:45: they'd take care sort of itself.

00:04:47: Nature doesn't need humans to conserve it, or... It's been always there.

00:04:52: And so what we look at is within the natural processes and ecosystems What is broken by humans that we can fix?

00:04:59: So nature could take a lead again In the landscapes.

00:05:02: We have eleven landscapes looking for more seascape marinescapes But we do restore nature at scale.

00:05:13: what's broken, so it can be that maybe predators are missing or the opposite like the large grazers are missing.

00:05:19: Or there may have been lots of dams in a river and we removed them.

00:05:23: So then natural processes can start flourishing again And nature can start evolving Again.

00:05:28: It is very different from Nature conservation In historical way because We don't try to keep the initial area as it was.

00:05:35: Just get back into nature until it starts leading us Into future.

00:05:41: it's hopeful because the power of nature to bounce back is amazing.

00:05:45: Just think of yourself not doing anything in your garden for two years and you will realize on a bigger scale, so our landscapes are really big eh?

00:05:54: And what happens if she just give her back to nature... Of course we need to fix that bro!

00:05:59: If there are certain keystone species missing or natural processes missing because we broke them or made them impossible We have to fix this.

00:06:09: but then If you visit the landscape where we've been working for ten years and see like that, The impact.

00:06:16: That is giving so much hope.

00:06:19: So it's more than just reconnecting to nature there.

00:06:21: It also becoming humble of power Of Nature To be itself And lead away.

00:06:27: again.

00:06:28: I really love about Rebellion Europe One of many on the globe that are really embracing this new approach or new evolution... ...of the approach of nature conservation and restoration called to a rewilding.

00:06:45: So, that's the rewielding?

00:06:46: And like you say it is just Europe part.. ..of the Rewildings Initiative which is around the globe right?

00:06:53: Yes!

00:06:53: It something going on in the globe

00:06:55: And there are several reasons why it gains so much traction, and one of them is actually that its hopeful message.

00:07:00: It's not like hey you should not do this right?

00:07:02: Its a sort of constraining message now bringing hope in the future outlook.

00:07:07: but they're also very practical reason for financial way more viable than traditional way of nature conservation since it doesn't cost alot if nature takes.

00:07:17: Just leave

00:07:17: alone!

00:07:18: Yeah invests in what needs to be brought back.

00:07:20: I mean it isn't cheap.

00:07:21: remove dams once their gone then fish start swimming of the river, and the bears are also moving in back into the area.

00:07:28: And everything becomes imbalanced and starts evolving to the future again that you don't have to pay a penny anymore right?

00:07:35: So compared to more traditional ways of nature conservation it's... The ROI is way different!

00:07:43: In Europe we want to have uh thirty-fifty percent depending on how you look at natural areas again.

00:07:48: It's basically unaffordable in the traditional way.

00:07:50: so this is definitely one.

00:07:54: but also academically seen.

00:07:56: We start realizing that we humans, we are not so good in thinking complex ecosystems.

00:08:02: So you always think oh can fix this and we can conserve these But then there's a impact on something else And the whole system is still out of balance.

00:08:12: In that sense nature and how it evolves Is showing us That complexity which you embrace It by just leaving alone impact on nature.

00:08:25: There's so much academic evidence that fixing these broken things in chains,

00:08:30: etc.,

00:08:31: is the way to go and then leave it back to nature again but needs all of the elements of Nature.

00:08:38: So for example It needs both praise and predators And also a challenge because Predators means conflict Means people are getting scared.

00:08:50: We're not used to live with wild animals anymore.

00:08:54: So yeah, we'll get to that as well.

00:08:58: That's a pretty

00:08:59: wild and really hopeful message.

00:09:01: And if you visit our landscapes You can feel the hope in the natural area.

00:09:07: so you see how it bounced back and became this mozaic of very beautiful nature again with wildlife coming back, those species Really on their rise but also people in there start rethinking value natural area and start embracing it.

00:09:25: People that were shooting the bear out of their apple orchards ten years ago are now driving around with stickers over our local NGO, Saviamo Lozzo in Italy.

00:09:36: saved them there because they also brings them socially, sociologically an economically a lot benefits as well.

00:09:43: some part of reballing is not only

00:09:45: through tourism

00:09:47: One of them.

00:09:48: one other means is tourism.

00:09:48: yet, but we have a multiple means over.

00:09:50: It's also local products.

00:09:52: There's a lot of carbon credits that you can sell when you start rewilding because usually a lot more carbon Is kept in nature?

00:09:59: When you let me take the lead again.

00:10:01: so there are multiple models But tourism was definitely one applies to every landscape that we had and That's also very easy to think off by the local communities.

00:10:10: They have an instant vision of tourism back could help them post-economically and sociologically.

00:10:17: Especially if they live in rural areas where there is often times little else, right?

00:10:22: Yeah yeah exactly!

00:10:24: And rural area it's exactly where Rewilding takes place because that's the opportunity... The fact people abandon the area or you know always have people still living here.

00:10:34: but a lot of people left open space for nature to take the lead again.

00:10:39: But they are specifically rural areas that we operate in.

00:10:45: It's not going to reintroduce bison near a city, right?

00:10:48: We're not or help the bear survive near communities.

00:10:53: We do...we do a lot on coexistence also as a tourist is amazing too.

00:10:59: experience how people co-exist and if you're a shepherd imagine!

00:11:05: And we bring back wolves.

00:11:08: Not everybody is happy at first

00:11:11: That depends, because usually in the areas wolves have always still been there.

00:11:15: So they still know how to co-exist.

00:11:17: They know that need a dog To protect their sheep But also knows that The wolfs has a role In this system Because if the wolves are not here There will be too many deer and boar Gracing And it would be A wasteland of only grass.

00:11:40: by reverse culture, the shepherds themselves and they love nature.

00:11:47: They loved to be out there all day a lot more than you and I probably so.

00:11:51: it's really about restoring nature rewilding nature but also making sure that people living there start being proud of their knowledge and skills on coexistence and showing tourists how that works rewilding their area again and stop conserving it or destroying.

00:12:15: So, to complete mindset shift in the end

00:12:18: about...

00:12:19: The human's place in nature?

00:12:23: Yeah well yeah if I'm always- If we talk about humans in nature i was realized like as they are separate but also just as species on this planet right were part of nature

00:12:35: very bully A very, we are

00:12:41: really... On us yeah.

00:12:44: We need oxygen and food but tourism is actually a very destructive force.

00:12:52: at the moment that I think almost nine or ten percent of carbon gases because of tourism for example.

00:13:02: in natural areas over-tourism can be very, very destructive for the area.

00:13:08: Yet?

00:13:09: Tourism can be a force of good right?

00:13:12: It's no matter how you do it and what your aiming

00:13:16: at

00:13:19: this is.

00:13:19: maybe how The Wilder Places came into existence.

00:13:25: You want to talk about What The Wilders Places Are?

00:13:28: At Rewilding Europe we realized two things.

00:13:30: first of all Tourists don't want to hurt nature.

00:13:35: They don't wanna leave nature in a worse state than they found it, and that's very hopeful as well right?

00:13:41: Tourist actually wanna do good!

00:13:44: And every study shows even studies from booking.com and academic studies at least eighty percent of the people uh...wanna travel more sustainably.

00:13:51: one make more sustainable tourists.

00:13:53: so we don't have to change peoples minds We just have to make sure that they behave according their own designers and motivations.

00:14:02: And I'm a consumer psychology by origin, so i know that there's a massive gap between people's intentions in peoples behavior.

00:14:10: but being the NGO rewilding those landscapes also made us realize it was.

00:14:15: second realization we could actually be orchestrator of tourism in these areas facilitating this usually not much if they're is with other challenges you know, meeting the amount of landscape and what nature needs in order to be re-wildered on one end.

00:14:38: And a tourist that actually wants to travel more in a more natural healing way instead of a naturally destructive way.

00:14:44: so thats why we started WilderPillars.com.

00:14:46: The overall tourism strategy is based off four pillars but one of them is definitely the platform WilderPlaces.com.

00:14:53: It's just another marketplace!

00:14:54: The only difference here is this marketplace has only nature positive Experiences and accommodations are listed.

00:15:02: And currently mainly from our own landscapes, the Revolver of Landscapes.

00:15:06: but we're also upscaling right now outside around landscapes.

00:15:10: so it'll be covering Europe.

00:15:12: every listing is positive for an agent.

00:15:16: I'm not sure if you gonna touch upon how to measure that because thats quite complex.

00:15:19: But the tourists can then make a choice in environment Once, he wants to travel more stable with all these sources are sustainable.

00:15:30: So it's different from other platforms where you're bombarded and all those offerings trying get your attention fighting over each other but its very hard usually find the sustainable choice that providers actually caring about nature And

00:15:49: here we talk about truly sustainable We only change towels every day.

00:15:55: Yeah, put a

00:15:56: step on it.

00:15:57: Also we talk beyond sustainability because sustainability is a lot about reducing harm.

00:16:03: but we want to be even a step further.

00:16:06: We wanted to be positive and not harming healing nature And they can balance out.

00:16:14: It's too short to dive into the details of how we measure this But there are negative impacts or positive impact right?

00:16:21: They can outbalance each other.

00:16:23: so if its positive for nature An accommodation doesn't need to have a certification by GSTC or ECST, however any of these sustainability certifications because maybe they can still improve on their energy use.

00:16:37: It's there waste management etc.

00:16:40: but if they are really rewilding that area and helping the comeback some keystone species telling narrative to tourists Being playing a big role in the system within the local communities, The Mayors and then the Nitro Park.

00:16:57: It can be very Indian positive even though maybe they should reduce their no longer use fossil fuels to eat there places about it And of course we are using the whole tourism network.

00:17:11: so with WilderPlaces.com comes every volunteer network, whether providers are connected share experiences and also share on how to become more nature.

00:17:21: positive which means both the negative side less harm but also in a positive site.

00:17:26: More doing good

00:17:28: so positive you would consider.

00:17:29: if you have more people traveling through these areas then that will

00:17:34: be

00:17:35: from the harmful travel or what do say this is a positive effect?

00:17:40: So we had a lot of very remote areas where they're very happy anyone shows up.

00:17:44: I mean, there are Eastern Rodobis in Bulgaria.

00:17:48: They're quite hard to get.

00:17:50: the Danube Delta is a quite remote and so love them or happy with more tourism.

00:17:59: but for us it's most important that also tourists become more aware of doing good than quantity.

00:18:09: So really quality over quantity trying to grow movement of travel.

00:18:14: that becomes a force for good and we're not going to do it by scale.

00:18:18: By massive quantity, first want to be spot on also learn how this works.

00:18:24: so in terms measuring the impact yes measure the impact on rewinding ecological site economically funding but also volunteerism experiences.

00:18:39: people can actually get there boots in the mud, get their hands dirty and work with us or another nature restoration or a rewilding entity.

00:18:49: So we measure that... We also measure the social-economical impact of the communities and the people visiting this area.

00:18:57: are they happy with the tourists?

00:18:59: Very important for us.

00:19:00: so actually measure where you're happy.

00:19:02: these people were there And we measured the impact on the tourist.

00:19:06: so we have three dimensions of nature and ecology, socioeconomic benefits for the local communities.

00:19:13: And the impact on the tourists.

00:19:14: are they becoming a bigger fan off letting nature take their lead again in rewild?

00:19:19: A large part of Europe will make it wilder place again.

00:19:23: so all three are important.

00:19:24: if or us In order to measure is this Nature positive or Rewilding?

00:19:30: Okay

00:19:31: okay We haven't seen that anywhere else, also not within other rewilding NGOs.

00:19:35: In this sense we are a unique first start and have a lot of attention from the other re-wilded entities both... Good!

00:19:42: I was going

00:19:42: to ask is there no such thing as wilder places in the other Rewilding communities around the globe?

00:19:50: There's lots of rewinding experiences out there.

00:19:52: Right

00:19:53: but they're Wilder Places

00:19:54: Like a platform initiative for making tourism a force for rewiling.

00:19:59: Okay.

00:20:00: Very cool.

00:20:00: We're

00:20:00: associated with all of them, right?

00:20:02: Also part of the Global Development Alliance.

00:20:05: actually our founder and executive director is on their board so we are very closely aligned.

00:20:12: So let's see but don't forget!

00:20:14: We only started one year ago.

00:20:15: eh Yeah I know

00:20:16: The platform

00:20:17: looks very impressive already For people that oh...I can now start a globally book Now were first going to prove it.

00:20:24: okay alright

00:20:25: yeah And then will talk again.

00:20:27: Okay,

00:20:27: so the Wilder Places.

00:20:29: So generally number one is a Marketplace, wilderplaces.com.

00:20:32: it's a marketplace.

00:20:34: If you have also now talking about people who are maybe listening to us if you have a place and say this actually doing good for nature how can I join in network?

00:20:45: To just have more people talk too that reach out to me.

00:20:51: then there will be something.

00:20:52: take look at them specifically on that marketplace, what you've started with the wilder places is lodges accommodations.

00:21:03: That are in those areas interwilding areas of course have taken a look at them.

00:21:09: they're all nice their rural there rustic but it's

00:21:20: The local community is the local people and that's, I mean they look very authentic and rustic.

00:21:25: And they are.

00:21:26: but it also applies for the people.

00:21:29: That something we really admire as a tourist to reconnect with those who coexist in our daily lives quite disconnected from nature again and love to reconnect.

00:21:47: And here are people coexisting, telling you stories on how it is to have a bear in the kitchen that's eating all the fruit from the kitchen table right?

00:21:58: The way they're positive about nature and return of wildlife.

00:22:03: we've this shifting baseline syndrome called in the academic world where We found it when we were like in our adolescence, right?

00:22:12: But nature's been changing and that you know I must be degrading quite quickly over the past generations.

00:22:19: People in these areas tend to be older but also are still connected to nature so they can also tell their stories on what was changed What went wrong And how rewilding bends that curve back up again To see How It Starts Flourishing Again When Nature Takes The Lead Again.

00:22:36: It's amazing to speak with these people.

00:22:38: Their accommodations are fantastic, remote and some of them completely off-grid.

00:22:45: not very easy to get there often but it was a bit that the connection between the people who still live in those areas is also big part of their experience.

00:22:55: Not only accommodation on WilderPlays.com actually most people looking for experiences.

00:23:02: It depends a bit on the season, but like typical booking season in beginning of year when people book their summer holidays.

00:23:09: We see a lot of tours with multi-day demand.

00:23:13: that includes accommodations and more as a package deal.

00:23:18: currently now it's almost there already have your destination chosen looking for daytime experience or somewhere to stay.

00:23:25: so you say that the demands shifts depending upon the season.

00:23:30: One of the things I like about Wilder Places is that it's less seasonal than most other tourism segments because people who are really nature conscious, they also have typical desires.

00:23:42: People want to hear their burl in autumn so not in summer.

00:23:47: but or do you wanna see the mating season?

00:23:49: Or the nesting season and hedging season?

00:23:52: There are so many seasons, bird watchers specifically.

00:23:55: They know exactly when birds are migrating or when filters are nesting and they have these... So it's very good also for the landscapes and people living there.

00:24:05: not only a new type of tourism that wants to help nature come back in the area but also less seasonal which these remote areas is restricted to July and August.

00:24:16: Yeah much

00:24:16: more sustainable right?

00:24:17: Yes

00:24:18: way more international which also feeds their pride.

00:24:20: you know it's a tension and also for their knowledge on coexistence.

00:24:24: is they feel again like, oh wow I actually have something that they don't had.

00:24:30: It makes me proud.

00:24:31: That's your contribution?

00:24:33: Yeah yeah

00:24:35: so...

00:24:36: So i also know you're.

00:24:37: your podcast is about hospitality eh?

00:24:39: Yeah!

00:24:40: It comes with a lot of challenges because yeah They are very authentic but not used to or skilled, or trained in modern hospitality.

00:24:52: So that's also a part of the journey we embarked on is to help this tourism network of providers with trainings and bringing them together making their network.

00:25:12: And like you say, I think most of us really prefer authentic and maybe less polished than being authentic but unkind.

00:25:27: I think with many of us, especially those who travel a lot would much rather go for the authentic but a little rougher on-the-edges part than what we sometimes encounter in some other hotels that we travel

00:25:41: to.

00:25:42: So

00:25:42: it's good to go!

00:25:44: What i wanted you ask here is so now obviously this does not go into a chain hotel or city center Unique or so, but if you're not necessarily a city hotel.

00:25:57: You may be a semi-rural hotel.

00:25:59: what can you?

00:26:00: how?

00:26:01: Can use this information on an importance of rewilding?

00:26:06: How can you bring to do it little while they?

00:26:09: can we all do something about that?

00:26:11: if I don't rely on me there'll be a Total rewiling of Europe and we would all participate.

00:26:17: and so yeah We have a lot request.

00:26:19: like these people with a few acres, can I still do it?

00:26:23: Yes of course you could.

00:26:24: But for us the first step that we advise to is see if there's rewiling happening in your area already.

00:26:32: because If There Is An Entity and be at Rewilding Europe or another Rewiring entity or WWF also has alot projects where rerollings are happening A lot of national regional parks starting to embark on the rewilding journey.

00:26:49: It's really gaining momentum in the world of conservation restoration, it is a new kit for the blog and if you can connect with stakeholders from those natural areas usually they have some sort of network where the government and authorities protect area managers If you could connect them start discussing how I as a rural accommodation or hotel, make my visitors connect to what you're doing.

00:27:19: That's definitely a very good way forward.

00:27:22: A lot of us have displays with brochures etc.

00:27:26: and so that people can connect the rewiling on nature restoration happening in the area And I think it is an easy first step just if something happens out there already.

00:27:37: because As a Nature Restoration NGO For us, it's hard to start accommodations.

00:27:42: But the other way around for an accommodation is to start rewallying at a different scale set.

00:27:47: you need to do analysis what's needed and but I think its very nice if your have serious problem land so let me just start rewallowing that problem lands.

00:27:57: That would be interesting.

00:27:58: We had network which we call the European Rewallet Network here in of private estate owners who want also embark on rewallying part of the whole of their real estate.

00:28:12: There are even barons from Ireland that are rewinding their state, kicking out the farmers or half them.

00:28:19: so they're bouncing back in huge quantities in those areas and then they start tourism activities because it's... So you can't start rewound yourself but I think really easiest way if you already have an accommodation is to see in your area which NGOs, which nature restoration is happening.

00:28:40: and can I connect to that?

00:28:41: Is there a business network?

00:28:43: or in the rewilding Europe landscapes themselves.

00:28:47: We call them landscapes so huge areas.

00:28:49: we always try to start a business networks.

00:28:51: not all of those were successful but most are.

00:28:54: And then makes it lot easier.

00:28:56: for example Greater Coa Valley North of Portugal where we're rewinding the coa valley There's the Wild Coa Network.

00:29:06: I think they have now eighty entrepreneurs on board.

00:29:09: Most of them are indeed accommodations, even some larger hotels from my larger chains that had embarked but do the rewiling narrative and impact together with the re-willing NGOs.

00:29:23: so we all have our own skill.

00:29:26: then set off things you can do.

00:29:29: But in combination We could have a really positive impact.

00:29:32: And these networks like Italy starting velvete and southern Carpathians, that's really impactful.

00:29:40: So if it is not there you might... And we will be very lucky and happy to start one!

00:29:46: Well I'm starting mine with my garden because my garden is going to win any day.

00:29:51: It just taking the lead in my gardens Okay but being aware of our time Because i know your on their way out.

00:29:59: Um..I know you come from the consumer psychology part of the world, right?

00:30:04: Business World.

00:30:06: And I remember reading a couple of articles that you posted on LinkedIn about the psychological aspects or sustainability.

00:30:13: so give us a couple tips to walk away with for those who are in business catering people and we want them become more sustainable.

00:30:23: how can they be more sustainable?

00:30:25: like i said at the beginning please realize most people actually wanna travel more.

00:30:31: So it's a niches thing if you look at the market, but another niches things.

00:30:35: If you look individual tourist because of least eighty percent even ninety three percent according to most recent booking dot com sustainable travel record actually want make more sustainable choices

00:30:47: But is too expensive for us to

00:30:48: call the technology point-of view.

00:30:50: and there was lot happening in the brain when behaviors taking place right?

00:30:54: And we very much overestimate the role of conscious thinking.

00:30:58: so we constantly consciously one two But there are so many emotions that play habits.

00:31:05: Unconscious brain processes, right?

00:31:07: Our brain takes cognitive shortcuts is sensitive to social norms.

00:31:14: if it's more difficult or friction in the booking process for sustainable choices and definitely countering... Or widening the gap between people's intentions.

00:31:26: So at least something to realize cater for that desire of people.

00:31:34: It's very important to first of all make it as easy as possible, often very underrated like whatever people wanted right?

00:31:43: And it's not so much about motivating them more you don't have to tell them who should do this or that and even probably can't protect him because he is hurting their feeling of autonomy but setting the defaults if they had choices.

00:31:56: set the default choice to the most sustainable one.

00:31:59: It's about social norms, like showing that other people are also doing these more sustainable choices.

00:32:07: Also lead by example.

00:32:08: just be proud of this is a sustainable.

00:32:11: projects and interventions that you did show it will make people feel good And I think the most important part of it Is That People Want To Identify Themself As A Sustainable Person.

00:32:24: Eighty percent of us don't want to see him or herself as an insustainable traveler.

00:32:30: So if anything that resonates with the identity is very good, but don't make it too obvious like oh you're such a good person.

00:32:37: no just by showing how sustainable your place and how your intervention will make them feel better their brain can say themselves hey I travel here because this.

00:32:52: Well, the person I want to be is a sustainable traveler.

00:32:55: So design the defaults activate identity make it sociable.

00:33:00: so show that this also what others wants you do and how to behave?

00:33:06: And then also speak out.

00:33:08: because interesting thing is we all think where are they only once They wanna travel more sustainably.

00:33:14: but when we start talking about it and speaking out loud doing good louder We find Well, eighty percent.

00:33:22: So four out of five others actually will start endorsing and embracing your thoughts and be rewarding in their remarks.

00:33:31: so that's also just start the conversation.

00:33:34: you'll find out somewhere inside almost all of us is a hidden drive to believe this planet better than we found it?

00:33:44: That's going to be quite the reach.

00:33:46: to leave it better then how we founded because our generation definitely challenged Absolutely.

00:33:50: To at least make it easy for those who want to bring the offerings, right?

00:33:54: The awareness is there now.

00:33:56: we got just... Make it easy and fun And

00:34:01: not the

00:34:02: most expensive version so that It's the barriers to actually hitting book Become easier and more normal.

00:34:12: We also need the expensive versions.

00:34:13: very often I mean its not restricted to any niche, it's not only high end or not higher.

00:34:20: It is across the whole market.

00:34:23: there's this spectrum and yeah I mean all these super luxury launches in for example Africa are now super sustainable solar power that say even they're four by fours have become solar powered.

00:34:38: yeah high-end also low end.

00:34:42: people in a small vent traveling around Europe trying to make a living as an OMAT, whatever on the small tight shoestring budget also very much so.

00:34:53: Yeah it needs

00:34:54: to be normal right?

00:34:55: It's what ever you do that shouldn't be really differentiating part Right?

00:34:59: Do you try sustainability or not?

00:35:00: It should be the new normal too To do things in a sustainable way.

00:35:06: Let's hope for that.

00:35:07: Your initiative, what you're doing?

00:35:09: What are you pulling off with the rewilding and wilder places?

00:35:12: like I said to me it brings my hope in a whole bit of concept brings hope into others as well And we can all

00:35:20: very nicely

00:35:21: leave the world hopefully not at worst place on how we found them At least In our way just set up for future prosperity For everybody involved.

00:35:32: Thank You That is exactly what were striving for.

00:35:34: If people want help us please have a look at wilderplaces.com as provider, as tourist because that would definitely help us in bringing this forward.

00:35:43: That's it!

00:35:43: I'll

00:35:44: put the link

00:35:45: on show notes Go for The Wild Places

00:35:50: Instagrams gowilderplays.com.

00:35:52: Facebook is Wilder Places.

00:35:54: You can find us also if you look at www.wilderclases.com.

00:35:56: there are links to our social profiles Because we'd like to engage with you and respond to any questions.

00:36:03: you got

00:36:04: Excellent.

00:36:05: Thank you so much, have a great trip.

00:36:08: I'm very curious to talk with again and see what experiences he came back

00:36:12: And i hope to see in the landscapes.